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Talk:The Muppet Show Comic Book: Meet the Muppets
On-going title So, the Pigs in Space one-shot is going to be The Muppet Show Comic Book #0 of what Boom has announced will be an ongoing comic book title for The Muppet Show -- no more starting over at #1 for each story arc. We have The Treasure of Peg-Leg Wilson on its own page, but what are we going to do for the continuing series? Langridge has said on his blog that #1-4 is called Muppet Show: On the Road, so do we start a page for each new story arc, or do we have one page for the ongoing series? If it's a page for the series, it should probably be The Muppet Show Comic Book, but then what do we do with the first limited series? It's being sold as The Muppet Show Comic Book: Meet the Muppets, so that's an option. To summarize, here are the options I'm thinking of. * The Muppet Show Comic Book as a landing page, a catch-all and/or disambiguation page. ** The Muppet Show Comic Book: Meet the Muppets for the first limited series. ** The Muppet Show Comic Book: The Treasure of Peg-Leg Wilson for the second series ** The Muppet Show Comic Book: Pigs in Space ** The Muppet Show Comic Book: On the Road ** The Muppet Show Comic Book: INSERT WHATEVER STORYLINES COME UP NEXT What do folks think? —Scott (talk) 05:15, October 5, 2009 (UTC) :Makes sense to me. Assuming this title goes on for a few years, it'll be way too crowded for one page. And this makes more sense than having a separate page for every issue. — Joe (talk) 14:13, October 5, 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, I totally agree. I was thinking about suggesting "Meet the Muppets" for the first arc too. -- Danny (talk) 16:46, October 5, 2009 (UTC) :::Should we put "The Muppet Show Comic Book" at the beginning of each article title, or should we do what we normally do for merchandise and just list the articles by indiviudal issue/ storyarc title? I guess the "Pigs in Space" issue can be titled "Pigs in Space (The Muppet Show Comic Book)". --Minor muppetz 00:47, October 6, 2009 (UTC) ::::For videos, we put the whole title that's on the cover -- Fraggle Rock: Complete First Season, The Muppet Show: Season One. So that could suggest we go for the full title... -- Danny (talk) 00:59, October 6, 2009 (UTC) :::::Makes sense to me - it seems like we'll basically be following the trade paperback (and hardcover) groupings and titles. -- Brad D. (talk) 01:24, October 6, 2009 (UTC) ::::::Okay, I made the move. —Scott (talk) 03:35, October 6, 2009 (UTC) :::::::I think that some of the openign text should be moved from here to the all-purpose Muppet Show Comic Book page. --Minor muppetz 02:24, October 7, 2009 (UTC) Pigs in Space Is there a page for the Pigs In Space one-shot? Or should we add info here? We've already got covers and an artist to share. — Joe (talk) 21:56, September 2, 2009 (UTC) Proto-covers Our Cover B images for issues #2 and 3 aren't the final versions -- they've got a photo of Kermit's head instead of the drawn characters. Does anyone have a good copy of the final covers? -- Danny (talk) 16:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :Are these good enough? Taken from here (a little pixely) and here (thin white border on the left). I replaced the previous ones for now - or should we keep the "draft images" as well in order to document changes (it's not just the Kermit head; issue #3 had its background darkened, for example)? — Julian (talk) 22:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC) ::I don't think it's worth keeping the old ones, except for the one with Ernie and Bert in it, since that's obviously interesting. Besides that, the changes are really minor. We had those pics because at the time, those were the only ones available; now we can replace them. Thanks for finding new ones! -- Danny (talk) 22:31, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :::No problem. I just realized that cover B for issue #4 needed to be replaced also, still showing Animal in the "O" instead of Zoot. And I hope it's OK with everyone that I went ahead and replaced cover A for both issues #3 and #4 as well, now displaying the "BOOM! KIDS" logo, issue #, year, price, and cover version. — Julian (talk) 22:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC) ::::I'd say that including the early cover images in addition to the released ones would be more interesting than including both the VHS and DVD covers of the same Sesame Street videos on the various video pages. --Minor muppetz 21:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC) Changed A Cover for Issue #3 I noticed when I saw the Comic Book Resources preview that the A cover of issue #3 was changed slightly from what's on the article page. Bert and parts of Ernie are no longer featured on the cover. Just thought I'd point this out, so someone will know to add the released cover. --Minor muppetz 02:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC) :Nice catch! They swapped Statler and Waldorf in the O for Rizzo as well. I just added the cover as released. —Scott (talk) 02:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Next Four-Issue Series I don't know if we're planning on making a seperate page for the next four-issue series or if it's all going to go here, but I'd like to point out that info and cover art has just been posted on The Muppet Newsflash. --Minor muppetz 23:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC) Character lists This article lists the characters and background characters used in each issue. I know we do that on some pages, but it's usually at the bottom of the page, under the information that has a broader readership appeal. Here, it's sprinkled throughout the article, and it's a level of nerd-dorkiness that makes me kind of uncomfortable. What do you guys think about leaving those lists off this page? -- Danny (talk) 22:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC) :I like it, if only because Langridge has been re-introducing characters that haven't seen the light of day in almost 30 years. Yes, it's a little awkward appearing repeatedly throughout the page. But until we figure out some stuff about this topic (i.e. will the second four-part series merit a separate page or will all issues of The Muppet Show Comic Book go on the same page?), I'd rather leave it here. If we have a separate page for each series, then we could consolidate all of that information at the bottom of that page, instead of in four places throughout the page. -- Peter (talk) 23:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC) :: I think its fine, it is just another one of those helpful things that is helpful. -- Joe (talk) 12:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC) :::I'm for the lists, so long as they don't become bulleted. —Scott (talk) 23:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC) Back Cover I got Cover B, which features the art from Cover A on the back cover (except without the "Muppet Show" logo and Gonzo). Does anyone have one of the other covers? I'm trying to figure out if they all feature the same art on the back. -- Peter (talk) 05:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC) :I have both Cover A and B, both of which feature Cover A virgin art. —Scott (talk) 15:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC) Veterinarian's Hospital I added that "Veterinarian's Hospital" was in the preview issue, and the info was removed. While I haven't see the preview comic in person, I found some scans at a Muppet Central thread about the cpmics announcements, and saw a scan from the "Vets Hospital" strip. It's here. That should prove that it's in the comic book. --Minor muppetz 01:01, 28 March 2009 (UTC) :That was me. I had gotten my hands on a digital copy of the preview comic, but it was obviously incomplete, as it didn't have the Vet's Hospital page. I'll add that back in right now. Sorry. -- Peter (talk) 14:33, 28 March 2009 (UTC) ::So, I spoke with Joe, who has a copy of the preview comic (which is where I had gotten my previous information), and he doesn't have that "Vets Hospital" page in there. So, the mystery continues... -- Peter (talk) :::Weird. So either his copy was missing a page, or I misunderstood that post that linked to the image, or some copies of the prevew were different. --Minor muppetz 23:20, 29 March 2009 (UTC) ::::Where's the post that linked to the image? —Scott (talk) 00:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC) :::::Here is the post. http://forum.muppetcentral.com/showpost.php?p=685970&postcount=99--Minor muppetz 00:28, 30 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::Hm, it looks like something Jamie found somewhere on the web and uploaded it to his own website. I'll ask Joe if it looks like his copy is missing pages. Otherwise, there may have been more than one version of the preview copy given out at Comic-Con. —Scott (talk) 00:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC) :::::::No, the Preview Comic isn't missing any pages. The Vet's Hospital page must be from elsewhere. I can reach out to my contact at BOOM and see if he knows. — Joe (talk) 00:55, 30 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Also interestingly, the page that comes before the Vet's Hospital sketch in the above image is on the right side of the page in the preview comic. — Joe (talk) 00:57, 30 March 2009 (UTC) Looking at the image a bit closer, this doesn't appear to be a photo of an open book at all. The pages look like they're inside a plastic sleeve held in a binder. The binder appears to be on top of Langridge's artwork for Fred the Clown (or some other project of his). I'll bet this photo was taken at a convention where Langridge had samples of his work laid out on a table in Artist Alley or some similarly named booth. If this is the case, the Vet's Hospital panels are most likley unpublished and may appear in a future issue of The Muppet Show Comic Book. —Scott (talk) 02:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC) :Well, I don't know if Langridge saw this talk page or if somebody contacted him about it, but Roger Langridges blog has that strip available for viewing, and he said that it was originally made for Disney Adventures. So I guess he made more than three Muppet comics for Disney Adventures. --Minor muppetz 16:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC) ::That's fantastic. I hope we someday get to see the missing page(s) of Sweetums' Muppet Show story from the preview comic. -- Peter (talk) 18:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC) :::What's missing from the Sweetums story? —Scott (talk) 18:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC) ::::I think it's pretty clear that there is something missing between pages 2 and 3 of the Muppet Show plot in the Comic-Con Preview. It actually makes sense for there to be a Vets Hospital sketch after Sweetums is yanked off of the stage, as Kermit says "Send in the quacks." But by the top of page 3 of the story, Sweetums has to be back onstage again, Piggy has to have gotten tied up, the Baby has to have revealed itself to be an adult, the curly-haired blue Whatnot would have to have been introduced, and we might even have been clued in to who "Mrs. Paint is." -- Peter (talk) 19:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC) non-songs "Bang, Boom, Splat and Pow" and "The Pond Where I Was Born" are redlinked. My guess is that those aren't real songs, and that we probably don't need pages for them. Thoughts? —Scott (talk) 00:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC) :I agree. --Minor muppetz 00:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ::I was the one who redlinked those, but I'm rethinking it. The info for "Bang, Boom, Splat and Pow" is mostly found under Four Little Hop-Toads anyway, but I think it's at least of interest that "Plinka-Plunk-a-Plunk-a-Plinka-Plunk" scans to the banjo intro to "The Rainbow Connection," but there's probably somewhere else we could include that. If Langridge continues to write original "songs" for the series, though, it might merit a list page or somesuch. -- Peter (talk) 00:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC) :::If there's enough info about them to make the articles interesting, let's go for it. But how would we categorize them? They're not songs the same way Category:Muppet Songs are. —Scott (talk) 00:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ::::Could they be Category: Muppet Show Sketches? I'm trying to see if there are any Sesame Street equivalents, since that show has a much richer print life than The Muppet Show does. -- Peter (talk) :::::I don't think we've ever had articles for passages of any kind in a book. —Scott (talk) 01:13, 26 March 2009 (UTC) The Muppet Show Comic Book I just picked up issue #1, and the cover says The Muppet Show Comic Book, as do the two title pages. This issue is referred to, alternately, as "Kermit's Story" or as "The Muppet Show #1 (of 4)." Just thought I'd add that; not sure if should we change this title to The Muppet Show Comic Book now that it looks like we have a final title for it. -- Peter (talk) 17:55, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :I was thinking that too, until I saw that #2 and 3 omit the "Comic Book" part. So it may be a promotional thing just to kick off the series. We should wait for the final cover art for the next issue to be sure I think. —Scott (talk) 18:21, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::I think that the other covers may be old; note that they still have the puppet Kermit coming out of the "O" in Cover B instead of how he was changed to the illustrated Dr. Teeth for Kermit's Story. Still, we'll know for sure in a month. -- Peter (talk) 18:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :::One more note: BOOM! Studio's website has it listed as The Muppet Show Comic Book in their Titles filter. But why did this page just go back into "In Development" if the series launched today? -- Peter (talk) 20:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::::Brad put it back in development I guess because the other issues aren't out yet. I'm taking the box off since the first issue is out and the others are heavily confirmed to be released. —Scott (talk) 21:13, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :::::Yeah, if you look at the history of Image:Muppet_Show_1a.jpg and Image:Muppet_Show_1b.jpg you'll see the logo changed from "The Muppet Show" (as seen on the non-final art we have here for #2 and #3) to "The Muppet Show Comic Book". BOOM! Studio's website also lists it as "The Muppet Show Comic Book" as does BOOM-kids.com. :::::Now as for why I put it back into "In Development" -- while the series launched today and issue #1 is out, issues #2, #3 and #4 are still in development and the information related to them could change (such as release dates and such). I was just following what we've done for other such pages that cover something that is released and something that is in development - such as Legends of the Dark Crystal, Return to Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal statues, My Name Is Elmo, Big Bird's Big Book, Another Monster at the End of This Book, Elmo Says..., Elmo Loves You (book), Farscape (comic book), Sesame Street Home Video Boxed Sets, Elmo's ABC Book, Me Cookie! and others. -- Brad D. (talk) 21:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::That's all pretty good evidence for the name. I'll go ahead and move it. ::::::Some of those articles listed as In Development are ridiculous. The Muppet Show Comic Book, the comic book title, is no longer being developed. It's a product released on the market that is currently ongoing. —Scott (talk) 21:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :::::::Ditto Scott on that. Reissues under the same title aren't in development, and we don't continue to keep Sesame Street seasons "In Development" until every relevant episode has aired, just until the premiere date. That applies to everything else (the boxed sets one is vague, but still the kind of thing better tracked via the Upcoming template, not as something in development). Yeah, individual air dates or release dates can still change, but the overall project is out and there's no real need for a huge disclaimer anymore than we need one for a character page if later we find out we misspelled the name or identify an uncredited performer and so on; pretty much all information on the Wiki can potentially be changeable, but the In Development tag is there when all we have to go on is vague rumors or press releases and it's not always certain if the project will even come out at all (and it shouldn't apply at all to the reissues; again, if we want to track those, there's Upcoming). The Dark Crystal statues handles things better, clearly separating what's out and what's been announced as forthcoming (though even then, the tag is less necessesary than the text). If we feel a need on the comic books, just "tentative release date" for the forthcoming issues or whatever works. Otherwise, visitors see the big tag and think "Oh, it's not out yet. What's the hold up?" -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::::I agree, and was just following what I thought was the guideline for tagging "in development" stuff. Looking at the page histories, Danny added the "Dev" tags to the book reissues and other such items last month - so it might be worth having him weigh in with his thoughts here. -- Brad D. (talk) 21:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :::::::::I put those book reissues into Development because it's a cue for us to update the page when the thing comes out. We check on the pages in that category, so we'll notice when the new books come out. All the ones that I listed will probably have new covers, which we'll want to add to those pages. :::::::::I like what Brad did with The Dark Crystal statues... putting the stuff that's been released at the top, and having the In Dev box on the section that's about the upcoming products. Would it be okay to do something like that for those situations, where some of what's on the page has been released and some hasn't? -- Danny (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::We've never done the tagging with reissues before, though, and it's basically confusing and offputting to readers. If it's solely as a reminder to us, and Upcoming isn't doing it, then a Sandbox page or something in the Category:Muppet Wiki space (or even just listing the possible new covers in Images Wanted) makes a lot more sense (and on the whole, we still have to remind ourselves to check and detag or recategorize the development stuff, so adding reissues just complicates things; especially if the goal is pictures, which may not appear online and it may be awhile before one of us feels like buying a new one, just like we're still digging up old covers). I understand wanting a reminder to update, but I don't think it's a good idea to puzzle or put off the reader; in general, the development box is a useful necessity, but it's also cumbersome, its language carefully worded in a way that works when dealing with rumors or scant info but not with reprints or "Issue #2 is set to follow" situations. Its size is problematic, and as noted, reissues or new issues/episodes really aren't new things in development. ::::::::::I like the statues page myself, as I said, but the box is still a problem, creating the ever present IE spacing issue when combined with the ad on top (it's not an issue when logged in, but again we're assuming we have readers who aren't necessarily registered users). I'd like to keep the format, with the 'In Development' heading (which neatly and clearly makes the distinction for even the casual reader) but drop the box. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC) I just created a to test the concept of a somewhat smaller development tag for sections related to upcoming stuff. And I tried it out on The Dark Crystal statues, Sesame Street Home Video Boxed Sets and Sandbox:The Muppet Show Comic Book. I think it could also work on Legends of the Dark Crystal, [to Labyrinth, and any other article that deals with multiple items some of which are released and some of which are still "in development". We could have the template put the articles in the "In Development" category, or we could just track those instances through . But it would let readers know that some information within a larger article is still of a forward-looking and speculative nature. -- Brad D. (talk) 02:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC) :I like Brad's dev2 box. -- Danny (talk) 03:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ::Nice work, Brad! I logged out and it looks just fine in either version and it's nicely discreet. I still don't think it's really needed on the comics (which strike me as closer to TV seasons and such, as I said; then again, delays are incredibly common for any publisher that isn't Archie, with Marvel taking three years between issues of its Wolverine vs Hulk thingamajig). Looking at it, in much the same way we sift sources or decide what counts as still in development or unfinished, it's also probably a case by case thing (i.e. Boom seems to stick to schedules fairly well and has the Muppet series planned on a monthly basis anyway, where it seems less necessesary to keep a tag up until every issue comes out, while Tokyopop has had several delays as well as longer planned gaps to begin with and thus a longer period in which things could change). On the whole, I think it's the perfect compromise for those situations. I'd still like to forget about dev tags at all on reissues and find a better way to track those (a "Scheduled Re-Releases" page could be nice, since it's true we don't always cover those on the front page). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:25, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Various Volumes Okay, it may be too early to be thinking about this now, but should we make pages for each of the individual comic books when they come out/ get released, or just make a table of sorts, listing plot descriptions and on-stage performances? So far there's just a preview comic, which we could either create a page for or put a description here. --Minor muppetz 01:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC) :Seems like a good time to bring this back up. Should we be creating a page for the individual issues in each comic book series? From what has been said (and I guess we'll know more tomorrow - and even more once we get the second issue in April), it seems that each issue of The Muppet Show comic book will be a standalone story, as opposed to Muppet Robin Hood, which looks to be one larger story split up into four parts. I'm on the side of creating a page for each issue, as it seems like each one will be like its own episode of The Muppet Show. I've already started adding characters and sketches that feature in Kermit's Story to the Wiki, and I think it would be good to have stuff like that map to the individual stories. Then, we can leave the main page to discuss the overall series, which would become especially useful once a second Muppet Show series is released. Thoughts? :Oh, and I also think we should have a page for the preview comic, but I'm not sure what it should be called. The Muppet Show Special Preview Comic? And did anyone ever confirm whether the material in the preview comic was supposed to have been used back when Langridge was working on Disney Adventures? -- Peter (talk) 18:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC) ::I have wondered if any of The Disney Adventures comics were included, but I am unsure. besides the Fozzie comic strip that was published, Langridge drew "Pigs in Space" and "At the Dance" comics, and I know that both "Pigs in Space" and "At the Dance" are in the preview (I don't know whetehr they are the same). Roger Langridge has a blog. Maybe one of us could send an e-mail and ask him. --Minor muppetz 18:29, 24 March 2009 (UTC) :::So, it looks like this conversation was already had over at Category talk:Comics, and we've agreed to have one page for all four issues of the Langridge comic book. Works for me. Anyway, it looks like most of my earlier question is moot now, but I still think there should be a place to discuss the preview comic if anyone else has any thoughts. :::And Michael, I know for sure that I saw excerpts from that Pigs in Space strip when Lagridge was working on Disney Adventures. I think they may have been on his blog. Anyway, I think asking him about that is actually a great idea, as he has seemed open to discuss his work with Muppet fans. -- Peter (talk) 18:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC) Pluralize This page is covering a mini-series of four comic books coming from BOOM!, should we move this to The Muppet Show (comic books) as this is discussing more than one book? -- Brad D. (talk) 18:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :We usually treat a series as one thing -- check out Muppet Babies (comic book) and The Muppets (comic strip). -- Danny (talk) 18:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::I understand comic strip - as "comic strip" (or even just "comic") can be used to refer to an individual piece or the entire overall collection of strips (just as "magazine" can be used to refer to a single issue or just the overal general body of publications). But with "book", it doesn't work that way. ::We have the Dark Crystal and Labyrinth comics, which were a single work -- and even published as a single book. But Muppet Babies, Fraggle Rock, and this series are multiple items - multiple books. And I think their page titles should reflect that pluralization - just as we put pluraization in the page titles for series of multiple PVC figures, lunchboxes, T-Shirts, or posters. ::I think that, for example, Fraggle Rock (comic book) should either be Fraggle Rock (comic books) or Fraggle Rock (comic book series). But saying just "comic book" seems weird, as the article covers multiple books. ::Maybe this is better suited for discussion in Category:Comics. Also, we have Dinosaurs Comics and Farscape (comics), which don't fit form with the other comic book series and should be changed to match whatever the system is going to be. -- Brad D. (talk) 19:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :::Okay, good point, and I agree we should talk about it. Want to move it to Comics? -- Danny (talk) 19:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Cite tag I put a cite tag on the sentence about adaptations of The Three Musketeers, etc. As far as I can tell, the only source for that is The Muppet Newsflash, which we don't consider to be a reliable source. Greg wrote: "BOOM's second batch of Muppet comics are said to feature the Muppets in parodies of classic literary works – such as Robin Hood, King Arthur and the Three Musketeers." But we don't know who said that... Is there any other source? If not, then we should take out that sentence. -- Danny (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2009 (UTC) :Also, what's the source on March 2009? ::Well, Boom! Editor-in-Chief Mark Waid said: "we're also talking--with Disney's heavy encouragement--to do things like Muppet Robin Hood, or the Three Muppeteers or whatever." in interview. ::The release date of March 25, 2009 has been touted on the following sites: http://heavyink.com/comic/8263-Muppet-Show-1, http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Muppet-Show-1-%28of-4%29___339574, http://www.muppetnewsflash.com/2009/01/muppet-show-1-hits-stores-in-march.html, http://www.toughpigs.com/muppet-comics-a-chat-with-the-writerartist/... :::-- Brad D. (talk) 18:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Cool, we should put those sources on the page. -- Danny (talk) 18:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)